Calling TL2, TL3, and TL4 members for your feedback!

[albert.vu]

Dear our @trust_level_2, @trust_level_3, and @trust_level_4 members,

First of all, thank you for your contribution to our community thus far, and we hope you will continue to be such valuable members in the future.

This community was initially created and managed by our developer team along with some of our long-time members such as Russ, until our team took over in late 2021/early 2022.

Afterward, we did implement some changes to the forum itself e.g. The UI revamp, de-cluttering the old categories, introducing the Kudos board, etc. Yet, we have also received feedback from our longtimers that the forum now is not like what it used to be e.g. quite a few enthusiastic members have left or been inactive on the forum, lack of meaningful conversations around the forum, etc.

While we cannot turn the clock back, what we can do now is listen to your feedback on the current state of the community and work with you to improve it together.

Since many of you have been here for longer than us, you have seen it all; hence, what are some of the things you notice about our forum that works well, need improving/changing, or any feature that should be implemented or removed? Feel free to let us know below

We are aware that some TL4 members are Katalians as well, and we encourage you to join in the conversation below

Some of the things at the top of my mind include:

• The category and tagging system is a bit “too much” as mentioned by @Russ_Thomas , could you tell us more?
• @bionel mentioned that new members tend to ignore Russ’ topic on how to ask the community effectively, which results in poorly-formatted topics. How can we encourage new members to better format and structure their topics?
• Your thoughts on some of the currently-running programs, such as the Top Contributor program and the Kudos Rewards Scheme?
• Your thoughts on the forum’s UI and what changes can we make to improve new members’ navigational experiences, etc.
• What do you think about having a Job Board in our community? → Join the discussion here
• Anything else that you may think of?

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Please note that while we take your feedback into consideration, it does not necessarily mean we will be able to implement them all.

[albert.vu]

For some TL3 and TL4 members that would like to manage the forum alongside us, we can enable you to become Category Moderators, think of it as a mid-way between being a TL3/TL4 member and a full-fledge moderator. If you are interested, please let us know!

[bionel]

@albert.vu

@bionel mentioned that new members tend to ignore Russ’ topic on how to ask the community effectively, which results in poorly-formatted topics. How can we encourage new members to better format and structure their topics?

The only idea I have in mind right now, make that topic a sort of ‘EULA’.
Ofccourse with a bit of polish on the content and so on.

So, any new user should read (it is up to the UI team how to enforce this) and accept it.
Such was a common practice with good old php forums, if you don’t read the part with “bb-code” hints, you cannot move forward.

Altough, I dislike the idea of enforcing, generally speaking, sometime we have to.
Simply because ‘encouraging’ does not work everytime.

For the other points brought into discussion, I will think about.

But overall, the major lacks of the current shape of this forum today, IMHO, are:

• lack of clear rules
• confusing structure
  (tagging? serriously? this works for twitter, facebook etc but not for a decent forum
  tags are supposed to help, but not being the main filter for sections and so on)

[albert.vu]

Hi @bionel,

Thanks for your feedback.

@bionel

So, any new user should read (it is up to the UI team how to enforce this) and accept it.
Such was a common practice with good old php forums, if you don’t read the part with “bb-code” hints, you cannot move forward.

We have already had topic templates implemented in various categories, so when you click on Ask the Community in the Katalon Studio subcategory for example, the text box will be pre-filled with instructions on how to detail your questions as below.

We could add Russ’s topic to the template so members follow his guide to format their topics. And while we do not have a “EULA” feature when it comes to creating topics, we could make it so that every topic created under Product Forum will need to be reviewed by our team first before they are published.

I suspect that doing this will result in many more topics flooding through our review queue which will possibly be too much for us to handle, so we welcome you - our TL3 and TL4 members (aside from our staff members) - to lend us a hand in reviewing these topics by becoming Category Moderator as I mentioned in my previous reply.

@bionel

• lack of clear rules
• confusing structure

Could you elaborate further? For the guidelines on what they should post, we have a basic guideline here.

As for the forum’s structure, could you let us know which part of it is confusing? Maybe the navigation flow to the different categories?

@bionel

(tagging? serriously? this works for twitter, facebook etc but not for a decent forum
tags are supposed to help, but not being the main filter for sections and so on)

We hear you. We will consider making tagging optional again and instead relying solely on the categories themselves for topics’ organization. Though I suppose we would need to approach this carefully as we do not really want the below category structure to come back.

[bionel]

@albert.vu

And while we do not have a “EULA” feature when it comes to creating topics, we could make it so that every topic created under Product Forum will need to be reviewed by our team first before they are published.

That will make no difference but just make the life of people entitled to review more annoying.

@albert.vu

so we welcome you - our TL3 and TL4 members (aside from our staff members) - to lend us a hand in reviewing these topics

No thank you!
I was a Moderator long time ago, and another Moderator considered me I was ‘poisoning’ some topics and downgraded me.
Not in mood to take again any responsability.
I preffer to be a humble user, if my posts are appreciated or not, it is not me to decide

[bionel]

@albert.vu

Could you elaborate further? For the guidelines on what they should post, we have a basic guideline here.

That is only a generic guideline, which should be obvious for some, in some people mind, for anybody.
It is common sense.
But in practice, this is not working.
People are different.
I already explained why and what is the solution.

[Russ_Thomas]

@albert.vu

@albert.vu

we do not really want the below category structure to come back

That’s a shame. It was better to keep the posts organized. If a noob posted in the wrong cat, it was easy to understand where the post should be moved to. With the current setup, I need to review categories and tags – and when there are suddenly new tags I don’t know about, it gets way too complicated (read: slow, tiresome, tedious).

Let me try to explain by way of a simple example. I’m going to describe what happens in my head that causes me to walk away and do nothing whereas before I would have fixed the problem myself, easily.

I read a thread this morning that contains a very poor exchange between two users (I won’t link to it publicly – I may drop you a line in a PM). In the past I could have dealt with the issue myself by referring to the relevant docs and “rules” and put the thread into a much better light. Because we have lost the rules I’m referring to, I do nothing and just let the thread sit there which really doesn’t help anyone, least of all Katalon. To put it right would involve me having to contact you guys, explain to you what’s wrong, if that’s a Friday, you won’t see it for 48+ hours… and that’s not something I’m going to do over and over.

So I walk away. I just don’t have time for that.

And it’s exactly the same with the new categories/tags system. I don’t have time.

Previously, you wanted me to expand on “what we lost”. I said it’s hard to explain, but the points above go some way to explaining the kind of thing that I mean. There is an old saying, “Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater” – I honestly think that’s what you did.

And regarding @bionel, everything he says is true. I was there. I totally understand him not wanting to be a mod again. It’s a thankless task most of the time.

Anyway… I got work to do.

[bionel]

@albert.vu

We have already had topic templates implemented in various categories, so when you click on Ask the Community in the Katalon Studio subcategory for example, the text box will be pre-filled with instructions on how to detail your questions as below.

as for this, it is the biggest joke.
how many posts simply posted with the raw template not being edited i saw? too many to count.
‘like it is’ they do… because is already filled.
because why to read they do, they only need to ask.

feel free to search for such and count how many cases are…

[bionel]

perhaps i was not clear up to now.
The current platform used for Katalon forum it is not a forum platform.
It is a social media designed, which is a different animal.
Tottally inefective for bug tracking and solutions sharing.
Thefore kindly change also the domain name into ‘Katalon chit-chat’ or whatever appropiate.

Or do whatever you feel appropiate, i am getting tired of ‘we want your feedback but we do it as we consider’

I have some feelings I am not the only one feeling like that.

[albert.vu]

Hi folks,

Sorry for my late reply.

@bionel

(tagging? serriously? this works for twitter, facebook etc but not for a decent forum
tags are supposed to help, but not being the main filter for sections and so on)

We can surely make tagging optional moving forward based on your feedback.

@Russ_Thomas

That’s a shame. It was better to keep the posts organized. If a noob posted in the wrong cat, it was easy to understand where the post should be moved to. With the current setup, I need to review categories and tags – and when there are suddenly new tags I don’t know about, it gets way too complicated (read: slow, tiresome, tedious).

Tagging @vu.tran for your opinion.

Let’s say within the 4 subcategories under Product Forums (Katalon Studio, Katalon Recorder, Katalon TestOps, Katalon TestCloud), we create subcategories that reflect some of the most cared-about subjects e.g. Web Testing, Mobile Testing, Integration, etc. Would that be a happy medium in your opinion @Russ_Thomas?

@bionel

The only idea I have in mind right now, make that topic a sort of ‘EULA’.
Ofccourse with a bit of polish on the content and so on.

So, any new user should read (it is up to the UI team how to enforce this) and accept it.

I double checked and there is a feature called “Policy” that enables us to include a section that requires members of certain groups to click accept, and set daily/weekly reminders so that those who have yet to click accept will be notified every day/week until they do so.

I could imagine this being inserted at the end in Russ’ topic and applying them to our TL0 and TL1 members (existing and new ones). Let me know what you guys think.

[bionel]

@albert.vu

there is a feature called “Policy” that enables us to include a section that requires members of certain groups to click accept, and set daily/weekly reminders so that those who have yet to click accept will be notified every day/week until they do so.

Sounds OK for me.

[albert.vu]

Hi @Russ_Thomas,

@albert.vu

I could imagine this being inserted at the end in Russ’ topic and applying them to our TL0 and TL1 members (existing and new ones). Let me know what you guys think.

Please let me know what you think about this. If you agree then I will insert a little disclaimer at the top of your topic, something along the lines of:

“After you have read through this topic, make sure to click Accept at the bottom to let us know that you understood and acknowledge Russ’ guide. Otherwise, you will be notified daily/weekly until you do.”

… and then the policy box itself at the bottom of your topic.

Thanks!

[Russ_Thomas]

@albert.vu

Let’s say within the 4 subcategories under Product Forums (Katalon Studio, Katalon Recorder, Katalon TestOps, Katalon TestCloud), we create subcategories that reflect some of the most cared-about subjects e.g. Web Testing, Mobile Testing, Integration, etc. Would that be a happy medium in your opinion @Russ_Thomas?

I should have been more clear, sorry.

The way I used to work with newbies was easier with the old cats and “loose” tags. The fact of the matters is, I no longer work with noobs (privs) and therefore don’t on a daily basis “practice” even “seeing” the cats and tags. On the rare occasions I do see them, they’re all a bit bewildering and seem way too much.

You don’t need to change anything. You wanted to know what was “lost” after the change. From my perspective, that was a significant loss, a significant factor back then that I no longer help with or even deal with.

@albert.vu

I could imagine this being inserted at the end in Russ’ topic and applying them to our TL0 and TL1 members (existing and new ones). Let me know what you guys think.

[albert.vu]

Hi Russ,

Thanks for your consent. I have updated your topic accordingly.